原帖由 Raul_Gonzalez 於 2010-4-1001:26 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
賽和就一定少入球? :icon101:
你地贏 4-3 係咪都會輸對賽成績 ?? :icon101:
what the **** of away goal :icon083:
原帖由 TZZero 於 2010-4-1002:00 發表 http://hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
你地贏 4-3 係咪都會輸對賽成績 ?? :icon101:
what the **** of away goal :icon083:
係咩? :icon101:
原帖由 Raul_Gonzalez 於 2010-4-1002:14 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
係咩? :icon101:
別想歪 :icon101:
我是為 Valencia 而 :icon083:
原帖由 TZZero 於 2010-4-1002:21 發表 http://hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
別想歪 :icon101:
我是為 Valencia 而 :icon083:
是你又想太多了
:icon101:
原帖由 講野無point的人 於 2010-4-1001:35 AM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
前四前四前四前四前四前四前四前四前四前四前四:icon066:
第四第四第四第四第四第四第四第四第四第四第四:onion43: :onion43: :onion43:
原帖由 Eric Fong 於 2010-4-909:47 PM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
世?:icon101:
吾好gum啦, 最有機會接近佢地係你地架啦:icon121:
汁下條後防啦:icon101:
生死之戰!
原帖由 Eric Fong 於 2010-4-911:56 PM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
你頭像係咪伊度亞度沙維奧:confused:
:icon125: 我從來都不喜歡那個阿根庭版卡普:icon101:
佢係Borja González, 上屆世少盃神射手, 季前熱身賽已有上陣+有入球
當然我望佢上位大于伊巴謙:icon101:
原帖由 萬事盈 於 2010-4-1006:00 AM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
第四第四第四第四第四第四第四第四第四第四第四:onion43: :onion43: :onion43:
如果你地真係有得踢歐聯, 借個魯爾加西亞比你地助興有點話:icon101:
原帖由 andyjeff 於 2010-4-1010:49 AM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
:icon125: 我從來都不喜歡那個阿根庭版卡普:icon101:
佢係Borja González, 上屆世少盃神射手, 季前熱身賽已有上陣+有入球
當然我望佢上位大于伊巴謙:icon101: ...
Diego Capel個樣, 我諗起Diego Forlan:icon101:
Xtratime Community> European Football> Spanish Football> FC Barcelona> LFP | J31 | Real Madrid CF vs FC Barcelona
Xtratime Community> European Football> Spanish Football> Real Madrid> LFP | J31 | El Clásico @ Santiago Bernabeu |
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兩篇戰術分析
The Question: Why is pressing so crucial in the modern game?
Barcelona and Bayern Munich both demonstrated the value of pressing the opposition to regain possession quickly last week
by Jonathan Wilson
Tuesday 6 April 2010
After Valeriy Lobanovskyi's Dynamo Kyiv had beaten Zenit Leningrad 3-0 in October 1981 to seal their 10th Soviet title, the report in Sportyvna Hazeta lamented that Viktor Maslov was not alive to see his conception of the game taken to such heights. It's a shame both weren't still with us to have seen those ideas taken to another level again by Barcelona against Arsenal last Wednesday.
As many have noted over the past week, Barcelona's rapid interchange of passes, the relentless attacking and the marauding full-backs perhaps recall one of the great Brazil sides, but the underlying process by which they play comes through the line of Maslov, Rinus Michels and Lobanovskyi.
"Without the ball," Pep Guardiola said after last season's Champions League final, "we are a disastrous team, a horrible team, so we need the ball." It is a sentence that could equally be used of Arsenal: of course they are much better in possession than out of it. The difference is that Barcelona are much better at regaining possession than Arsenal.
After 20 minutes last Wednesday, Barcelona had had 72% of the possession, a barely fathomable figure against anybody, never mind against a side so noted for their passing ability as Arsenal. Their domination in that area came not so much because they are better technically – although they probably are – but because they are better at pressing. In that opening spell, Barça snapped into tackles, swirled around Arsenal, pressured them even deep in their own half. It was a remorseless, bewildering assault; there was no respite anywhere on the pitch, not even when the ball was rolled by the goalkeeper to a full-back just outside the box.
Arsenal buckled. Again and again, even players for whom composure in possession is usually a default gave the ball away. It's hard to believe Cesc Fábregas, who was admittedly possibly hampered by injury, has ever passed the ball as poorly as he did in the first half. Andrey Arshavin was so discombobulated he did a mini-Gazza and crocked his knee lunging at Sergio Busquets.
The psychological factor
This is the unspoken strength of Barcelona: they aren't just majestic in possession themselves; they also make other sides tentative in possession. Think not just of Arsenal, but of Michael Carrick and Anderson haplessly misplacing passes in Rome last May. Partly that is because Barça are so quick to close space; but it is also psychological. Barça are so good in possession, so unlikely to give the ball back, that every moment when their opponents have the ball becomes unbearably precious; even simple passes become loaded with pressure because the consequences of misplacing them are so great.
Although less spectacular in possession, Dunga's Brazil do something similar, aided, as Rob Smyth noted, by having conned the world into believing they still play in a way that they haven't since 1982. That's why so many pundits seem baffled by Brazil's recent successes in the Confederations Cup and the Copa America. John Terry, having watched from the stands as they beat England 1-0 in Doha last year, was still talking about them having "individuals who can frighten anyone one-on-on" while insisting "I don't think Brazil are anything really to worry about".
Their individuals probably aren't, but individuality is no longer their strength; their strength is their cohesion, and the discipline of their pressing which, allied to their technique when in possession, means their opponents almost never have the ball, something Wayne Rooney pointed out in a post-match interview in which his bright red face paid eloquent testament to just how much fruitless chasing he had done.
Notably, Brazil's worst recent performance came in their 1-1 draw in World Cup qualifying away to Ecuador, when only a string of saves from Julio Cesar preserved them from heavy defeat; in Quito, of course, the altitude makes the physical effort required for hard pressing far more difficult.
Shock and awe
Even in the context of their own excellence, though, Barça were exceptional in that opening 20 minutes. Which raises the question of why then, why not every game, and why not in the final 70 minutes. Perhaps an element of complacency crept in, perhaps Arsenal slowly shook themselves out of their daze and began to play, perhaps the replacement of Arshavin with Emmanuel Eboué gave them a greater defensive presence on the right; certainly those seemed to be the commonest explanations.
It is, anyway, a historical truth that when sides strike a period when everything clicks perfectly as it did for Barça in that early period, it rarely lasts more than a few minutes, even in performances held up as the greatest of all time. West Germany, for instance, only really played brilliantly for the first 35 minutes of their 3-1 win over England at Wembley in 1972. Even Hungary, in their 6-3 demolition of England in 1953, were done after 65 minutes, and had dipped towards the end of the first half. Transcendence is, by definition, very difficult to achieve and even harder to maintain.
But it may also be that Barcelona's early surge was part of a calculated plan, and that is why the comparison with Lobanovskyi seems apt, even though the more direct line of influence is through Michels and Johan Cruyff. Pressing with the intensity Barcelona achieved on Wednesday is exhausting, and cannot be kept up for long periods.
In The Methodological Basis of the Development of Training Models, the book he co-wrote with Anatoliy Zelentsov, Lobanovskyi lays out three different kinds of pressing. There is full-pressing, when opponents are hounded deep in their own half; half-pressing, when opponents are closed down only as they cross halfway; and there is false pressing, when a team pretends to press, but doesn't – that is, one player would close down the man in possession, while the others would sit off.
Particularly against technically gifted opponents, Lobanovskyi would have his sides perform the full-press early to rattle them, after which false pressing would often be enough to induce a mistake – and often, of course, his side would be comfortably ahead after the period of full-pressing.
Whether Guardiola has quite such a structured theory is unlikely, but it does seem probable that there was a conscious effort from Barcelona to impose themselves early. The only problem was that, mainly through excellent goalkeeping, and partly through ill luck and poor finishing, Barça were not ahead after 20 minutes, and Arsenal, this season, as their catalogue of decisive late goals suggests, are rather more resilient than they used to be.
Pressing back
Arsenal's attempts to respond with pressing of their own were, frankly, dismal. Allowance should be made for how shaken they were in the early minutes, but the gulf between the sides was still obvious. For pressing to be effective the team must remain compact, which is why Rafael Benítez is so often to be seen on the touchline pushing his hands towards each other as though he were playing an invisible accordion. Arrigo Sacchi said the preferred distance from centre-forward to centre-back when out of possession was 25m, but the liberalisation of the offside trap (of which more next week) has made the calculation rather more complicated.
Again and again, Arsenal's forwards would press, and a huge gap would open up between that line and the line of the midfield. Or the midfield would press, and a gap would open in front of the back four. What that means is that the player in possession can simply step round the challenger into space, or play a simple pass to a player moving into the space; the purpose of the pressing is negated. Or, if you prefer, it was as though Arsenal were false-pressing, without having achieved the first stage of the hustle which is to persuade the opposition you are good at pressing.
Even worse followed after Arsène Wenger apparently attempted to address the issue at half-time, and encouraged his back four to push up. The problem, though, is that if the timing and organisation of the step-up are amiss, a side becomes vulnerable to simple balls over the top such as led to the first goal, or through-balls such as led to the second. This has been a recurring problem for Arsenal over the past couple of years, Gabriel Agbonlahor's goal for Aston Villa at the Emirates last season being a classic example.
The Walcott protocol
What turned the game towards Arsenal – although even in the final 25 minutes when they scored twice, it would be a stretch to say they took control – was the introduction of Theo Walcott. When England beat Croatia 4-1 in Zagreb 18 months ago, he was a key player not just because he scored a hat-trick, but because his pace hit at Croatia's attacking system on their left. At Euro 2008, they had got used to Ivan Rakitic cutting in on to his right foot, with the full-back Danijel Pranjic overlapping, but Pranjic, aware of the danger of allowing Walcott to get behind him, became inhibited. He was neutralised as an attacking threat, while Rakitic became predictable, always turning infield without anybody outside him to draw the full-back – which is the downside of the inside-out winger.
By the nature of how they play, Barcelona, similarly, are vulnerable in the full-back areas. Dani Alves, in particular, is a sham of a defender – which is why Dunga prefers Maicon – but so long as Barcelona control possession it doesn't matter because his job is to be an extra man in midfield and to overlap for Messi (it may have been fear he would not be able to get forward as usual that led Guardiola to use Messi not on the right but as a false nine).
That is one of the reasons Barça's pressing is so awesome; with the full-backs pushed on, their system often appears as, effectively, a 2-5-3. To press with so many so high is a gamble, but one that has tended to be effective. Florent Malouda's performance against Alves in the second leg of the semi-final last year is an indication of what happens when the gamble fails and Barça do not control possession.
The arrival of Walcott disrupted Barça's pressing because Maxwell, like Pranjic, suddenly began looking over his shoulder (in a similar way, Charlie Davies's diagonal runs behind the full-back were a key to USA's victory over Spain at the Confederations Cup because they prevented Sergio Ramos pushing forward and so made Spain very narrow in midfield).
Samir Nasri had earlier had some success against Alves – almost all Arsenal's attacks in the first hour came through him, or through space he had created – and once Arsenal had weathered Barça's initial surge and begun to have some possession, it may be that Arshavin could have done something similar against Maxwell. Real pace, though, adds another dimension, because it means the full-back knows that as soon as the wide-man has got behind him, he has no chance of catching up. Perhaps that is an argument for Walcott starting, but then again, without Eboué last week, maybe they wouldn't have got any grip on possession.
And that, really, is the dilemma for Arsenal: attack Barcelona where they are vulnerable, by playing two out and out attacking wide-men, and the danger is you never have enough possession to make the most of that potential advantage. Concentrate on winning possession by playing more cautiously, and you may have no damaging way in which to use it.
The bigger problem, though, is the issue of pressing. Even if all else is equal, the fact remains that Barça are far, far more adept at winning the ball back than Arsenal, and that makes it all but certain they will dominate possession, and thus the game. Maslov and Lobanovskyi would have approved.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/apr/06/question-pressing-crucial-modern-game
Clasico clichés: Are Barca really better than Madrid?
By Didac Peyret
It is not unusual to resort to clichés or cling to stereotypes in an attempt to explain something we do not understand, or in order to create a more comfortable reality. If you simplify the reality, then it creates fewer questions; the world of football is no exception.
For example, in Spain, a country that will be gripped by El Clasico this weekend, there is a prevailing theory that Barcelona play better football than Real Madrid but that their rivals from the capital are more effective.
It is an opinion that through force of repetition has turned into a convention; a truth accepted by the majority. It is also a perspective that has been used in Barcelona to discredit Madrid.
To address this preconception, firstly it would be pertinent to agree that it is not the same to play good football and to play attractive football, even if both concepts are often taken hand-in-hand. If you have a model, your own recognisable style, good play consists of making this philosophy as concrete as possible on the field.
So then if we compare the paths of both teams in La Liga this season, it is very bold to declare that Barcelona have been playing better. Actually, Madrid have strived to find a very good balance with a fast back-four playing a high line to reduce space, a midfield that mixes a good distributor of the ball, a holding midfielder and a more creative element, and one mobile player in behind two strikers.
Their game is faster than Barcelona's, with fewer breaks in play but with as much rhythm and intensity. Barcelona have another plan: go on the attack, dominate the game and avoid the threat of the counter-attack, retaining the ball and playing an elaborate and expansive game.
Barca are a tantric team, Madrid achieve their climax via quicker means.
But Barcelona have not been playing at a similar level to last season, except in some divine moments such as at the Emirates when they eviscerated Arsenal in the first half.
Andres Iniesta, Thierry Henry and Rafael Marquez have not performed at their peak and while Lionel Messi, Eric Abidal and Victor Valdes have maintained, and in some cases surpassed, their level of performance, the rest of the squad have lowered their level.
It is a situation that in many ways is natural. It is very hard to maintain the same attitude, the same passion and the same commitment after winning six trophies in a calendar year.
Examining from another angle the topic of whether Madrid play inferior football but to a more effective level, it is interesting to observe certain statistics from La Liga.
Firstly, no team has scored as many goals as Real Madrid. There is also no other player who needs fewer minutes to score a goal than Gonzalo Higuain. But it is equally true that Madrid are the team that have enjoyed the most chances.
To put this another way, Madrid have had less success in front of goal than Barcelona in percentage terms. Madrid have had 620 shots to Barcelona's 471 - perhaps explained by the fact they boast more players who take on long-range shots, Cristiano Ronaldo for example.
Furthermore, the claim that Madrid are less creative is also undermined. Madrid have generated more opportunities, which actually speaks volumes for the collective game of the team. Madrid have 20 shots per game whereas Barcelona average around 15.
Does that mean Real play better than Barcelona? Not necessarily, but it certainly questions the myth that Madrid's success is founded on efficiency.
Another interesting topic is that of pressure, and determination. Pep Guardiola's successful Barcelona side last season were one of the best in regaining possession. The onus started with Eto'o, who inspired his team-mates to be equally as dedicated in chasing the ball.
This season, though, Madrid have recovered possession on 1,782 occasions while Barcelona have managed 1,702. This is another example of how cold, hard facts can dismantle first impressions.
This Saturday, when two of the greatest clubs in world football do battle, the millions watching around the world will have another chance to draw their own conclusions and contrast prevailing stereotypes with reality.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=768490&sec=europe&cc=4716&cc=4716
原帖由 andyjeff 於 2010-4-1010:42 AM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
吾好gum啦, 最有機會接近佢地係你地架啦:icon121:
汁下條後防啦:icon101:
搞得掂後防
前面都星散:icon074:
原帖由 andyjeff 於 2010-4-1010:49 AM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
:icon125: 我從來都不喜歡那個阿根庭版卡普:icon101:
佢係Borja González, 上屆世少盃神射手, 季前熱身賽已有上陣+有入球
當然我望佢上位大于伊巴謙:icon101: ...
馬勒當拿話你個阿根庭版卡普比起美斯更似佢wor:icon054:
:icon101:
原帖由 andyjeff 於 2010-4-1010:52 AM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
如果你地真係有得踢歐聯, 借個魯爾加西亞比你地助興有點話:icon101:
講堅
論表現係馬略卡秤先la
今年爭歐戰ge實力分子就上半季跌watt
黑馬果d就下半季啞火:icon102:
Ibrahimovic and Kaka ruled out of El Clasico
By Soccernet staff
April 9, 2010
Barcelona are without Zlatan Ibrahimovic while Kaka misses out for Real Madrid as the sides meet for El Clasico on Saturday.
Ibrahimovic suffered a calf injury during the warm-up for last weekend's 4-1 victory over Athletic Bilbao at Camp Nou and subsequently missed the 4-1 Champions League victory over Arsenal.
Pep Guardiola had said he hoped Ibrahimovic would "be ready at least for the Madrid game" earlier in the week, but has been left out of the squad for the weekend after failing to train on Friday morning.
Ibrahimovic had been expected to miss the Madrid match at Camp Nou but returned to score the only goal of the game.
Eric Abidal will also miss the match, but Andres Iniesta is set to make his first start for two weeks. Gerard Pique trained without problems on Friday and is expected to start.
Madrid have since confirmed that Kaka, who has not played since March 10, will not be in the squad due to his thigh problem, but Xabi alonso is included despite struggling with his ankle.
原帖由 中場指揮官 於 2010-4-1008:02 PM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
Ibrahimovic and Kaka ruled out of El Clasico
By Soccernet staff
April 9, 2010
Barcelona are without Zlatan Ibrahimovic while Kaka misses out for Real Madrid as the sides meet for El Clasico on Satur ...
:icon032: 無關痛癢
:icon101: 馬些路缺陣ge影響分分鐘仲大過呢兩條友
原帖由 熱刺#29戴維斯 於 2010-4-1020:18 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
:icon032: 無關痛癢
:icon101: 馬些路缺陣ge影響分分鐘仲大過呢兩條友
同雲達華治並列我地今季西甲助攻王
:icon101:
原帖由 熱刺#29戴維斯 於 2010-4-1008:18 PM 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
:icon032: 無關痛癢
:icon101: 馬些路缺陣ge影響分分鐘仲大過呢兩條友
場波少左d星味遮...:( :icon101:
始終焦點都係c朗vs美斯...:icon101:
原帖由 中場指揮官 於 2010-4-1021:44 發表 http://www.hkcmforum.com/images/common/back.gif
場波少左d星味遮...:( :icon101:
始終焦點都係c朗vs美斯...:icon101:
上觀眾席搵囉星味
:icon101: