大意失荊州??

AirKID

Originally posted by joekjen at 2005-6-16 06:54:



發現唔到史書有乜明確計載,馬超一作亂就已經可以據潼關
可能長安係馬騰未入許都時已為其控制

馬超傳有講過佢攻陷長安再打潼關喎...
佢係西涼起精騎兵 加上曹操移左大軍準備攻吳 佢先可以狂風掃落葉咁攻佔關中ja
蜀國都唔夠騎兵

joekjen

Originally posted by AirKID at 2005-6-16 10:38 AM:


馬超傳有講過佢攻陷長安再打潼關喎...
佢係西涼起精騎兵 加上曹操移左大軍準備攻吳 佢先可以狂風掃落葉咁攻佔關中ja
蜀國都唔夠騎兵

"超既統眾，遂與韓遂合從，及楊秋、李堪、成宜等相結，進軍至潼關"
我剩係搵到這句


同埋據資治通鑒所記,當時曹操命司隸校尉鐘繇討伐張魯,仲派夏侯淵率軍會合
跟住馬超以為係打佢
我引返之後既事個句
"關中諸將果疑之,馬超、韓遂、侯選、程銀、楊秋、李堪、張橫、梁興、成宜、馬玩等十部皆反,其眾十萬,屯據潼關 "

[ Last edited by joekjen on 16-6-2005 at 11:16 AM ]

TinTin

Originally posted by 沉睡的藍 at 2005-6-15 08:19 AM:
忽發奇想：果時西涼錦馬超點樣殺入長安的？
蜀漢又可否照辦煮碗？

突擊

蜀果時係人都知唔係你打我就人打你,點突,關羽呢次都已經算突擊 ga la

TinTin

Originally posted by joekjen at 2005-6-15 06:14 PM:



"超既統眾，遂與韓遂合從，及楊秋、李堪、成宜等相結，進軍至潼關"
我剩係搵到這句


同埋據資治通鑒所記,當時曹操命司隸校尉鐘繇討伐張魯,仲派夏侯淵率軍會合
跟住馬超以為係打佢
我引返之後既事個句
"關中諸將果疑之,馬超、韓遂、侯選、程銀、楊秋、李堪、張橫、梁興、成宜、馬玩等十部皆反,其眾十萬,屯據潼關 "

西涼兵成十萬

以呢個數目同咁快速 ge 行軍,軍隊上下一鼓作氣,開頭 win 到一D都唔奇

不過戰事一耐,內部問題完全出曬黎,想唔敗都幾難

不過馬超起兵 ge 時機真係幾好

joekjen

真係冇乜計載馬超點樣"攻入"長安,反而如果話佢一路都盤據關中長安會更貼切

TinTin

Originally posted by joekjen at 2005-6-15 10:52 PM:
真係冇乜計載馬超點樣"攻入"長安,反而如果話佢一路都盤據關中長安會更貼切

可能守城果個超快投降

stephenlion

Originally posted by TinTin at 2005-6-16 05:33 PM:


可能守城果個超快投降

鍾生等左好耐無救兵

AirKID

Originally posted by joekjen at 2005-6-16 15:52:
真係冇乜計載馬超點樣"攻入"長安,反而如果話佢一路都盤據關中長安會更貼切

肯定有傳記講過鍾生負責守長安的...

stephenlion

Originally posted by AirKID at 2005-6-16 08:20 PM:



肯定有傳記講過鍾生負責守長安的...

有
不過曹生打緊江東嘛~

stephenlion

Originally posted by AirKID at 2005-6-16 08:20 PM:



肯定有傳記講過鍾生負責守長安的...

好明顯我地都唔想打鍾生個名~`

joekjen

Originally posted by stephenlion at 2005-6-16 08:25 PM:

有
不過曹生打緊江東嘛~

曹操出兵合肥係209年既事

馬超起兵係211年原起係因為曹操叫鍾繇出兵打漢中同派夏侯淵率軍會合,
馬超同韓遂認為曹軍係打佢地先起兵


究竟鍾繇當時係唔係長安好有疑問,反而鍾繇傳有講佢經營洛陽既事

AirKID

Originally posted by stephenlion at 2005-6-16 20:27:

好明顯我地都唔想打鍾生個名~`

唔識打佢個名

截拳道小子

Originally posted by AirKID at 2005-6-16 10:05 PM:


唔識打佢個名

縣

joekjen

Originally posted by 截拳道小子 at 2005-6-16 10:09 PM:

縣

繇=月山竹女火

stephenlion

Originally posted by 截拳道小子 at 2005-6-16 10:09 PM:

縣

wrong./..haha

TinTin

講講下講馬超

不過改做三國討論 la

查實馬超果時係咪真係咁多馬 ar

stephenlion

Originally posted by TinTin at 2005-6-17 05:34 AM:
講講下講馬超

不過改做三國討論 la

查實馬超果時係咪真係咁多馬 ar

西涼多馬嘛

TinTin

Originally posted by stephenlion at 2005-6-16 06:27 PM:

西涼多馬嘛

多到關中人都怕,個數目一定好驚人

joekjen

Originally posted by TinTin at 2005-6-17 03:42 PM:


多到關中人都怕,個數目一定好驚人

西涼兵本身已經係精銳之師
曹操既評價係"關西兵精悍，堅壁勿與戰”,叫曹仁係主力大軍未到前唔好輕舉妄動

TinTin

Originally posted by joekjen at 2005-6-16 11:17 PM:



西涼兵本身已經係精銳之師
曹操既評價係"關西兵精悍，堅壁勿與戰”,叫曹仁係主力大軍未到前唔好輕舉妄動

如果當日孔明第一次北上打下關西,西涼等

會唔會因為有左馬軍,關中大戰唔再無勝算